PDA

View Full Version : Liver and Alcohol - The Dueling Banjos



jaxxtx
08-13-2013, 01:11 AM
2 things pretty much related. What is a good liver flush / antioxidant when running a Test E cycle or just taking care of your liver period? I was told that there are or is a pill that you can take to decrease the affects of alcohol on your cycle ... Anyone know the name or something that works? I'd like to drink some bourbon and I've read it waste your test. Anyone know teh name or know of a An in the

bigharleyb
08-13-2013, 08:40 AM
Big bump.....I too like a few things that aren't exactly good for me. I know a lot of guys talk about tudca,liv52, or milk thistle...I suggest researching that. IMHO...anything u put in your body stresses the liver....just drink a LOT of water and be moderate (don't drink every day).

jaxxtx
08-13-2013, 09:34 AM
Big bump.....I too like a few things that aren't exactly good for me. I know a lot of guys talk about tudca,liv52, or milk thistle...I suggest researching that. IMHO...anything u put in your body stresses the liver....just drink a LOT of water and be moderate (don't drink every day).
I have Milkthistle / Dandelion Liver - Thanks Big Harley

jaxxtx
08-13-2013, 04:11 PM
My cousin told me there was a pill to take so the alcohol doesn't affect your test cycle as much???

chocolatemalt
08-14-2013, 01:13 AM
Ran across some interesting research on this...

Oral silymarin (Milk Thistle) appears to be useless, even in levels far beyond the recommended doses on the bottle: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/29/health/la-he-skeptic-20100329

Coffee appears to have a strong liver healing ability for alcohol related damage: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/jun/13/health.healthandwellbeing

blergs
08-14-2013, 05:40 AM
2 things pretty much related. What is a good liver flush / antioxidant when running a Test E cycle or just taking care of your liver period? I was told that there are or is a pill that you can take to decrease the affects of alcohol on your cycle ... Anyone know the name or something that works? I'd like to drink some bourbon and I've read it waste your test. Anyone know teh name or know of a An in the

Test is not liver toxic.
with or without a supp its still bad to drink on or off cycle. but for liver i rec NAC, Liv52, milkthistle (don't give me the bs thistle doesnt work at all for liver/kidney I have seen studies on it and it is good for you, but it IS over hyped in many ways)

oufinny
08-14-2013, 05:42 AM
TUDCA is the best option I say and it does not interfere with some anabolics like Milk Thistle does with orals (not all orals just some of them).

blergs
08-14-2013, 05:57 AM
Ran across some interesting research on this...

Oral silymarin (Milk Thistle) appears to be useless, even in levels far beyond the recommended doses on the bottle: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/29/health/la-he-skeptic-20100329

Coffee appears to have a strong liver healing ability for alcohol related damage: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/jun/13/health.healthandwellbeing

not really:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23916468
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23884490
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23674609
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23566372
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23435858

there is alot more out there. but it is usually over hyped. I would use it for overall health and NAC for liver only worries, or the combo

chocolatemalt
08-14-2013, 09:22 AM
not really:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23916468
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23884490
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23674609
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23566372
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23435858

there is alot more out there. but it is usually over hyped. I would use it for overall health and NAC for liver only worries, or the combo

Well I hope you're right. It'd be nice for all of us if milk thistle was indeed effective.

Most of the links you posted either show animal studies or a multi-compound cocktail (milk thistle and a few other things) being used for non-liver applications such as skin cancer. The 4th link seems to be relevant however, showing that 420 mg/day of oral silymarin had some measurable benefit. However this is contradicted by the study I linked, an excerpt here:

But there's a problem. When taken orally, silymarin breaks down extremely quickly. In a 2009 study published in the Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, Hawke and colleagues gave oral silymarin supplements to 32 patients with hepatitis C. Subjects received up to 700 milligrams of silymarin every eight hours for seven days, about 10 times more silymarin than they would get from the recommended dose of Nature Made Milk Thistle Extract. Even at these "heroic" doses, as Hawke called them, the blood levels fell far short of levels achieved during intravenous studies. Also, the treatment didn't seem to have any effect on the liver function, as measured by levels of liver enzymes and viral genetic material in the blood.

It should be noted that the effectiveness of silymarin given intravenously isn't questioned, only the oral absorption. If the digestive system breaks it down to nothing, it's a waste of time. Also, at 2,100 mg/day they were trying pretty hard to elicit a response and not seeing one. Perhaps this is the result specifically in the case of Hep C patients who may have some response issues, whereas those of us taking other liver-stressing substances and not having Hep C would still benefit. That's only speculation however.

blergs
08-14-2013, 01:46 PM
Well I hope you're right. It'd be nice for all of us if milk thistle was indeed effective.

Most of the links you posted either show animal studies or a multi-compound cocktail (milk thistle and a few other things) being used for non-liver applications such as skin cancer. The 4th link seems to be relevant however, showing that 420 mg/day of oral silymarin had some measurable benefit. However this is contradicted by the study I linked, an excerpt here:

But there's a problem. When taken orally, silymarin breaks down extremely quickly. In a 2009 study published in the Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, Hawke and colleagues gave oral silymarin supplements to 32 patients with hepatitis C. Subjects received up to 700 milligrams of silymarin every eight hours for seven days, about 10 times more silymarin than they would get from the recommended dose of Nature Made Milk Thistle Extract. Even at these "heroic" doses, as Hawke called them, the blood levels fell far short of levels achieved during intravenous studies. Also, the treatment didn't seem to have any effect on the liver function, as measured by levels of liver enzymes and viral genetic material in the blood.

It should be noted that the effectiveness of silymarin given intravenously isn't questioned, only the oral absorption. If the digestive system breaks it down to nothing, it's a waste of time. Also, at 2,100 mg/day they were trying pretty hard to elicit a response and not seeing one. Perhaps this is the result specifically in the case of Hep C patients who may have some response issues, whereas those of us taking other liver-stressing substances and not having Hep C would still benefit. That's only speculation however.


I just did a quick search , I have seen better studies just dont want to spend the time looking again honestly.
I see milkthistle more as a good antioxidant then much else. like I said over hyped for liver protection, but healthy for you regardless and in many areas. why I will use it still.

chocolatemalt
08-14-2013, 01:59 PM
I just did a quick search , I have seen better studies just dont want to spend the time looking again honestly.
I see milkthistle more as a good antioxidant then much else. like I said over hyped for liver protection, but healthy for you regardless and in many areas. why I will use it still.

Ok gotcha, I was looking strictly at oral milk thistle for liver protection. I think the jury's still out on that. But for other stuff it may still be useful.

McDouche
08-14-2013, 04:09 PM
Good discussion guys.

Personally I take Liv52 year round. Its cheap and I have seen some research showing its effectiveness and I do allow myself to drink once a week, even on cycle.

Awesome news about the coffee. The only thing I consume more of than coffee is water and protien lol

jaxxtx
08-22-2013, 11:56 AM
Very nice. I appreciate the time and effort guys.
I starting taking LiverCare by Himalaya. its all natural if that matters and it says right on the bottle detox AND cell regeneration. again I guess every product varies I'm not sure how effective it is against alcohol use I just know that it was cheap and review good I'll look into Liv52. this is not the only place I've heard of that. Thnx