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THEJOKER
08-19-2020, 05:55 AM
This is not a debate but more an interesting and wanting some clarification. So if anyone can, please do.

Estrogen and prolactin correlate directly proportional to one another in this context. When estrogen goes up, so too does prolactin and same on the way down. This of course is under normal circumstances in the absence of any other conditions or medications that could affect prolactin levels.

“Control the estrogen, which then controls the prolactin, which then controls the gyno, which then mitigates the need for Caber or Prami right?”

Deca does not seem to be responsible for increased levels of prolactin any more than high doses of testosterone would be responsible because we have established that when estrogen goes up, as too does prolactin.

Now Trenbolone does not aromatize at all, so what is going on here?

This is interesting stuff as we all say control estrogen or control prolactin or when estrogen goes up prolactin goes up. So what’s the real explanation as if this was true, testosterone would increase prolactin like Deca and Tren wouldn’t increase prolactin and it does.

Now I feel like a knowledgeable dude. Am I missing it? Can anyone explain or add to this?

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shawn4425
08-19-2020, 07:25 AM
This is not a debate but more an interesting and wanting some clarification. So if anyone can, please do.

Estrogen and prolactin correlate directly proportional to one another in this context. When estrogen goes up, so too does prolactin and same on the way down. This of course is under normal circumstances in the absence of any other conditions or medications that could affect prolactin levels.

“Control the estrogen, which then controls the prolactin, which then controls the gyno, which then mitigates the need for Caber or Prami right?”

Deca does not seem to be responsible for increased levels of prolactin any more than high doses of testosterone would be responsible because we have established that when estrogen goes up, as too does prolactin.

Now Trenbolone does not aromatize at all, so what is going on here?

This is interesting stuff as we all say control estrogen or control prolactin or when estrogen goes up prolactin goes up. So what’s the real explanation as if this was true, testosterone would increase prolactin like Deca and Tren wouldn’t increase prolactin and it does.

Now I feel like a knowledgeable dude. Am I missing it? Can anyone explain or add to this?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200819/a7356c44a83e39cfdf2a6545848500d6.gif


If you have questions or need a list hit up Red Bird at redsxript@ctemplar.comIn my totally unknowing opinion. The way it was explained to me, and I have zero research to back up. Is that Estrogen production does not directly effect Prolactin production. However the environment that allows your estrogen to increase, is the same environment that allows your prolactin to increase. So by controlling your E2 it makes the environment less conducive for prolactin spikes.

All 1919-Nors effect prolactin, some worse then others. That's why some people can get by taking P5P for nandrolone but many more people say it doesnt work as well with Tren.

Controlling the E2 controlls the environment.

Sure thisbdoesnt help but this was what I was told

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THEJOKER
08-19-2020, 07:30 AM
In my totally unknowing opinion. The way it was explained to me, and I have zero research to back up. Is that Estrogen production does not directly effect Prolactin production. However the environment that allows your estrogen to increase, is the same environment that allows your prolactin to increase. So by controlling your E2 it makes the environment less conducive for prolactin spikes.

All 1919-Nors effect prolactin, some worse then others. That's why some people can get by taking P5P for nandrolone but many more people say it doesnt work as well with Tren.

Controlling the E2 controlls the environment.

Sure thisbdoesnt help but this was what I was told

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It doesn’t. Why? That would mean an AI would control prolactin...AND that test would increase prolactin just like a 19nor.

But I appreciate you commenting and trying to figure this out.


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shawn4425
08-19-2020, 07:42 AM
It doesn’t. Why? That would mean an AI would control prolactin...AND that test would increase prolactin just like a 19nor.

But I appreciate you commenting and trying to figure this out.


If you have questions or need a list hit up Red Bird at redsxript@ctemplar.comTest does raise prolactin just not to the levels 19nors do. As I said I'm not the most educated.

https://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0007/ea0007p288

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THEJOKER
08-19-2020, 07:51 AM
Test does raise prolactin just not to the levels 19nors do. As I said I'm not the most educated.

https://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0007/ea0007p288

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Yes it does but. It like 19nor. But if we say control e2 and control prolactin, then we assume that test raises prolactin just like a 19nor as it raises e2...and we wouldn’t need a caber with anything, just an AI.


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shawn4425
08-19-2020, 08:09 AM
Yes it does but. It like 19nor. But if we say control e2 and control prolactin, then we assume that test raises prolactin just like a 19nor as it raises e2...and we wouldn’t need a caber with anything, just an AI.


If you have questions or need a list hit up Red Bird at redsxript@ctemplar.comTrue? But obviously they effect something differently just not sure what. This link has tons of good links to papers published on similar topics maybe this will guide you
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1742-7843.2009.00439.x


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THEJOKER
08-19-2020, 08:12 AM
True? But obviously they effect something differently just not sure what. This link has tons of good links to papers published on similar topics maybe this will guide you
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1742-7843.2009.00439.x


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That’s my question. Thanks.


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502Kev
08-19-2020, 09:35 AM
Yes it does but. It like 19nor. But if we say control e2 and control prolactin, then we assume that test raises prolactin just like a 19nor as it raises e2...and we wouldn’t need a caber with anything, just an AI.


If you have questions or need a list hit up Red Bird at redsxript@ctemplar.com

https://www.hormone.org/your-health-and-hormones/glands-and-hormones-a-to-z/hormones/prolactin

Production of prolactin is controlled by two main hormones: dopamine and estrogen. These hormones send a message to the pituitary gland primarily indicating whether to begin or cease the production of prolactin. Dopamine restrains the production of prolactin, while estrogen increases it.

https://www.steroidal.com/steroids-side-effects/prolactin/prolactin-anabolic-steroids/

Control of Prolactin would ideally be the first and best possible course of action before any other measures are taken. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, after all, and it is not healthy in any way to completely eliminate Prolactin levels or allow them to rise above the normal range. As evidenced previously in this article, the control of Estrogen (https://www.steroidal.com/steroids-side-effects/estrogen/) seems to be the key factor in maintaining low levels of Prolactin in the body, as Estrogen has a direct stimulatory effect on not only the synthesis of Prolactin at the pituitary gland, but also in facilitating mammary tissue function and development. As a matter of fact, one study conducted on female lambs involved the administration of Trenbolone (https://www.steroidal.com/steroid-profiles/trenbolone/trenbolone-acetate/) along with Estradiol (E2) and another group of lambs with Estradiol-only, which resulted in the expected effect of Prolactin increases as a result of Estradiol, but the Trenbolone + E2 group experienced an anti-Estrogen effect from Trenbolone, preventing the mammary stimulus of Estrogen[1] (https://www.steroidal.com/steroids-side-effects/prolactin/prolactin-anabolic-steroids/#_edn1). This is hardly surprising, considering it is common knowledge that androgens can and do decrease the number of Prolactin receptors in the body as well[2] (https://www.steroidal.com/steroids-side-effects/prolactin/prolactin-anabolic-steroids/#_edn2) (especially strong androgens such as Trenbolone). Maintaining an high androgen:estrogen ratio is a key factor in controlling Prolactin as well, as evidenced by one study in which a subject experienced significant Prolactin increase during Testosterone (https://www.steroidal.com/testosterone/) administration as a result of the aromatization of the administered Testosterone into Estrogen[3] (https://www.steroidal.com/steroids-side-effects/prolactin/prolactin-anabolic-steroids/#_edn3).

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3109/01485017908987305

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8740191/

502Kev
08-19-2020, 09:37 AM
That’s my question. Thanks.


If you have questions or need a list hit up Red Bird at redsxript@ctemplar.com

Damn good question. Some answers I found relative to your thoughts

THEJOKER
08-19-2020, 10:19 AM
Damn good question. Some answers I found relative to your thoughts

This all makes sense BUT, same thing...
If estrogen increases PL, why doesn’t test increase PL like NPP or DEca?

And, why Tren doesn’t aromatize into e2 but does increase PL?


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502Kev
08-19-2020, 03:04 PM
http://www.anabolicsteroidforums.com/threads/95752-2020-Ultimate-guide-to-Tren?highlight=trenbolone

I just remembered this thread, and it took me awhile to find it, but I think this explains the confusion

THEJOKER
08-19-2020, 03:54 PM
http://www.anabolicsteroidforums.com/threads/95752-2020-Ultimate-guide-to-Tren?highlight=trenbolone

I just remembered this thread, and it took me awhile to find it, but I think this explains the confusion

Thanks


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THEJOKER
08-20-2020, 05:49 AM
From that thread....
First lets discuss what a progestin (AKA progestogen) is. A progestin is essentially a derivative of the steroid hormone progesterone, and as such it has progestogenic effects in the body. This is much like something that is a DHT derivative, and therefore has very strong DHT effects (think about DHT-derived AAS). Progesterone is a hormone involved in the female menstrual cycle and pregnancy, and is not something that should be found in men. One of progesterone’s purposes is so signal the pituitary gland to produce and secrete a protein hormone called prolactin. Prolactin is another hormone which serves a purpose in pregnant women, and it binds to receptors in breast tissue to signal lactation. This presents a couple of problems for men, which leads to the side effects from tren that are progesterone-based.

...and high Estrogen will stimulate progest receptors.

Money!


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